GB2251365A

GB2251365A - "A method and apparatus for forming a minced meat block"

Info

Publication number: GB2251365A
Application number: GB9126135A
Authority: GB
Inventors: Graeme Lionel Beere; Hugh Wyndham Beere; John Denis Massey
Original assignee: ABRAKEBABRA
Current assignee: ABRAKEBABRA
Priority date: 1990-12-17
Filing date: 1991-12-09
Publication date: 1992-07-08
Anticipated expiration: 2011-12-09
Also published as: GB9126135D0; ZA919758B; IE904537A1; GB2251365B

Abstract

Apparatus for forming a minced meat block (2) for use in the preparation of a kebab comprises a main framework (12) for supporting a mould (14). The mould (14) defines a hollow interior region (19) which defines the outer surface of the meat block (2). A bore forming member (23) extends through the interior region (19) of the mould (14) forming a bore (9) in the minced meat block (2). A tamping plate (55) mounted on a carrier framework (56) is provided for tamping the minced meat in the mould (14) to compact the meat therein. Indicating openings (25) extend from the interior region (19) to indicate when the minced meat has taken up the shape of the interior region (19). Minced meat is subjected to a vacuum prior to being placed in the mould (14) and is then tamped until minced meat appears through the indicating openings (25). <IMAGE>

Description

A METHOD AND APPARATUS FOR FORMING A MINCED MEAT BLOCK The present invention relates to a method and apparatus for forming minced meat into a block, and in particular for forming a minced meat block suitable for mounting on a skewer of a cooking device for cooking the meat for a kebab.

Kebabs are prepared from meat, generally lamb meat sliced from a block of meat. The block of meat is prepared from minced meat which comprises a mixture of lean lamb meat and fat. In preparing the minced meat block, it is essential that air entrained in the minced meat is expelled. Otherwise, as the minced meat is cooked the air in the block expands to form voids. Such voids considerably hinder the slicing of meat from the block. In general, where too many voids exist it is impossible to cut a slice of meat from the block. In such cases, the meat on being cut fragments due to the voids. This is unsuitable for use in a kebab. Attempts to overcome this problem have been made, for example, a method for building minced meat onto a block is disclosed in British Patent Specification No. 2,230,933A.While the method disclosed in the British Specification is reasonably successful, it is nonetheless relatively time consuming and labour intensive.

An alternative method for overcoming the problem requires increasing the proportion of fat to lean meat in the mixture of minced fat and lean meat. This however, is undesirable because of the health implications of excessive consumption of fat.

There is therefore a need for a method for forming a minced meat block which permits the cutting of slices of meat from the block after cooking. There is also a need for apparatus for carrying out the method.

The present invention is directed towards providing such a method and apparatus. The invention is also directed towards providing a minced meat block from which a slice of meat may be cut on the minced meat block being cooked.

According to the invention there is provided a method for forming minced meat into a block in a mould, the mould comprising a wall defining a hollow interior region which defines portion of the outer surface of the minced meat block, an open mouth being provided to the interior region, and at least one relatively small indicating opening extending through the wall from the interior region, the method comprising the steps of placing the minced meat in the hollow interior region through the open mouth, applying pressure to the minced meat in the mould, compressing the minced meat in the mould until minced meat appears through the indicating opening.

Preferably, a plurality of indicating openings are provided through the wall of the mould, and the pressure is applied to the minced meat until the minced meat appears through at least some of the indicating openings.

In one embodiment of the invention the pressure is applied to the minced meat in the mould until the minced meat appears through each of the indicating openings.

Advantageously, the pressure is applied to the minced meat in the mould by tamping the minced meat.

Preferably, the minced meat is tamped through the open mouth of the mould.

In another embodiment of the invention air entrained in the minced meat is extracted prior to placing the minced meat in the mould.

Advantageously, the minced meat is subjected to a vacuum for extracting the entrained air, prior to being placed in the mould.

Preferably, the minced meat is vacuum packed for extracting the entrained air prior to being placed in the mould, the minced meat being removed from the vacuum pack prior to being placed in the mould.

Advantageously, the minced meat is placed in transversely arranged layers in the mould.

Preferably, the layers of minced meat are shaped to substantially define the cross-section of the interior region of the mould prior to being placed therein.

In one embodiment of the invention a bore is formed in the minced meat block.

Preferably, the bore is formed while the minced meat is in the mould.

In one embodiment of the invention the minced meat block is a relatively elongated block of substantially circular transverse cross-section.

Advantageously7 the elongated minced meat block tapers from one end to the other.

Preferably, the taper is relatively gradual.

In one embodiment of the invention the bore through the minced meat block extends longitudinally therethrough and substantially co-axially of the minced meat block.

Advantageously, the bore through the minced meat block is formed by a bore forming member extending through the hollow interior region of the mould, the bore forming member being releasably mounted in the mould.

In one embodiment of the invention the minced meat is prepared from lean meat and fat meat, the lean meat constituting in the range of 50% to 90% by weight of the minced meat.

Advantageously, the lean meat constitutes approximately 80% by weight of the minced meat.

In a further embodiment of the invention the hollow interior region of the mould defines a base and a side wall of the minced meat block.

In one embodiment of the invention the method includes the step of freezing the mould and the minced meat contained therein.

Advantageously, the mould and minced meat therein are frozen to a temperature in the range of -150C to -300C.

Preferably, the mould and minced meat therein are frozen to a temperature of approximately -200C to -250C.

In a further embodiment of the invention the method further comprises the step of removing the minced meat block from the interior region of the mould.

Advantageously, the bore forming member is removed from the interior region of the mould prior to removing the minced meat block therefrom.

Additionally, the invention provides apparatus for forming minced meat into a block suitable for mounting on a skewer, the apparatus comprising a mould having a wall defining a hollow interior region which defines portion of the outer surface of the minced meat block, an open mouth to the hollow interior region for placing the minced meat in the interior region, and at least one relatively small indicating opening being provided through the wall of the mould from the interior region for accommodating the passage of minced meat therethrough to indicate when the minced meat has substantially taken up the shape of the interior region.

Preferably, a plurality of indicating openings are provided through the mould wall.

Advantageously, each indicating opening is of circular cross-section of diameter not exceeding 5 mm, and preferably, not exceeding 3 mm diameter.

Advantageously, the mould wall comprises a base and a side wall extending upwardly from the base, the base and side wall defining the hollow interior region of the mould.

In one embodiment of the invention the apparatus further comprises a main framework supporting a platform for receiving the mould, and tamping means are mounted on the main framework for tamping the minced meat in the mould.

Advantageously, the tamping means comprises a tamping plate enterable through the open mouth of the mould for applying pressure to the minced meat in the mould, the tamping plate being mounted on a carrier framework moveable relative to the main framework.

Further the invention provides a minced meat block prepared according to the method of the invention.

Additionally, the invention provides a minced meat block using the apparatus of the invention.

Furthermore, the invention provides a kebab comprising meat sliced from the minced meat block according to the invention.

The invention will be more clearly understood from the following description of a preferred embodiment thereof, given by way of example only, with reference to the accompanying drawings, in which: Fig. 1 is a perspective view of a minced meat block according to the invention, Fig. 2 is a perspective view of apparatus according to the invention for preparing the minced meat block of Fig. 1, Fig. 3 is a partly cut-away perspective view of the apparatus of Fig. 2, Fig. 4 is a perspective view of the apparatus of Fig. 2, in use, Fig. 5. is a cross-sectional elevational view of portion of the apparatus of Fig. 2, Fig. 6 is a plan view of the portion of the apparatus of Fig. 5, and Fig. 7 is a sectional side view of a detail of the apparatus of Fig. 2.

Referring to the drawings, there is illustrated apparatus according to the invention indicated generally by the reference numeral 1 for forming minced meat into a block also according to the invention, and indicated generally by the reference numeral 2. The minced meat block 2 is suitable for mounting on an elongated skewer (not shown) of a cooking device (not shown) of the type used for cooking a minced meat block for providing meat for use in the preparation of a kebab. Kebabs and such cooking devices will be well known to those skilled in the art.

Before describing the apparatus 1 in detail, the minced meat block 2 will first be described with reference to Fig. 1. The minced meat block 2 is of elongated tapered cylindrical shape of circular crosssection and defines a base surface 5 and a top surface 6 joined by a side surface 7. The side surface 7 tapers from the top surface 6 to the base surface 5. A bore 9 for engaging the skewer (not shown) of the cooking device (also not shown) extends longitudinally through the block 2 from the base surface 5 to the top surface 6 and is co-axial with the block 2.

The apparatus 1 comprises a main framework 12, which is described in more detail below which supports a mould 14 for forming the block 2. The mould 14 comprises a bucket shaped container 15 of stainless steel material, and of circular transverse crosssection having a base 16 and a side wall 17 extending around and upwardly from the base 16. The base 16 and side wall 17 define a hollow interior region 19 which defines a substantial portion of the outer surface of the minced meat block 2. In other words, the base 16 defines the base surface 5 of the minced meat block 2 and the side wall 17 defines the side surface 7 of the minced meat block 2. The side wall 17 defines a circular open mouth 20 to the interior region 19, and the interior region 19 tapers from the open mouth 20 to the base 16.An elongated spigot 22 of hollow square section stainless steel is welded to the base 16 and extends upwardly into and co-axial with the interior region 19 towards the open mouth 20. A bore forming member for forming the bore 9 through the minced meat block 2 comprises an elongated tubular member 23 of stainless steel material, and of circular cross-section, which releaseably and slidably engages the spigot 22 and extends from the base 16 through the interior region 19 and through and above the open mouth 20.

A plurality of relatively small indicating openings 25 for indicating when minced meat has taken up the shape of the interior region extend through the side wall 17 from the interior region 19. Each indicating opening 25 is of circular cross-section of approximately 3mm in diameter. An indication that the minced meat has taken up the shape of the interior region 19 is obtained when the minced meat commences to exit through the indicating openings 25. A transverse cross bar 28 also of stainless steel material is welded to the base 16 and extends on opposite sides of the container 15 for mounting the mould 14 on the main framework 12 as will be described below.

The main framework 12 comprises a pair of upstanding front members 30 and a pair of upstanding rear members 31 which form legs to support a platform 33 for supporting the mould 14. The front and rear upstanding members 30 and 31 are of stainless steel box section material. The platform 33 is of sheet stainless steel and is supported on a frame 34, which joins the front and rear upstanding members 30 and 31 respectively. The frame 34 comprises front and rear members 35 and 36 extending respectively between the upstanding front and rear members 30 and 31. Side members 37 join the front and rear members 35 and 36.

The front, rear and side members are of stainless steel box section material welded together. A pair of intermediate cross members 38 also of stainless steel extend between the side members 37. A slot 39 in the platform 33 co-incides with a slot 40 defined by the intermediate cross members 38 for receiving the transverse cross member 28 of the mould 14. Retaining means comprising a pair of retaining brackets 45 of stainless steel are slidably mounted in the slot 39 and releasably engage the intermediate cross bar 28 of the mould 14 for releaseably retaining the mould 14 on the platform 33. Each retaining bracket 45 comprises a top member 46 and a bottom member 47 joined by connecting members 48 which together define an eye 49 for releaseably engaging the cross members 28.The top and bottom members 46 and 47 slideably engage the platform 33 and intermediate cross member 38, respectively.

Tamping means for applying pressure to the minced meat in the mould 14 so that the minced meat is tightly compacted in the interior region 19 and air is expelled from the minced meat comprises a tamping plate 55 pivotally carried on a carrier framework 56 which is in turn pivotally mounted on the main framework 12. The carrier framework 56 comprises a pair of side members 57 joined by a cross member 58 and a cross member 59 which forms a handle for pivoting the carrier framework 56 during tamping. The side members 57, cross member 58 and cross member 59 are of stainless steel welded together. Pivot pins 60 through pivot brackets 61 extending from the side members 57 pivotally engage the rear upstanding members 31 of the main framework 12. A pair of tension springs 63 connected to anchor brackets 64 and 65 on the upstanding rear members 31 and the side members 57 bias the carrier framework 56 in a generally upward direction. The tamping plate 55 is of stainless steel material. A pair of stainless steel mounting members 68 extending from the tamping plate 55 are pivotally connected to the cross member 58 of the carrier framework 56. A pair of pivot pins 70 carried on pivot brackets 71 mounted on the cross member 58 pivotally engage the mounting members 68.

The tamping plate 55 is of circular area just less than the cross-sectional area of the interior region 19 of the mould 14 adjacent the open mouth to permit the tamping plate 55 to pass into the interior realon 19 of the mould 14. An opening 72 through the tamping plate 55 accommodates the bore forming member 23 during tamping.

In use, to form a minced meat block 2 using the apparatus 1 and the mould 14, the mould 14 is placed on the platform 33, with the retaining brackets 45 at respective ends of the slot 39 as illustrated in Fig.

3. The transverse cross bar 28 of the mould 14 is engaged in the slot 39. The retaining brackets 45 are moved towards each other so that the eyes 49 of the retaining brackets 45 engage the cross bar 28 for retaining the mould 14 on the platform 33 during tamping, see Figs. 2 and 7. The bore forming member 23 is engaged on the spigot 22 so that the member 23 extends upwardly from the base 16 through the interior 19, see Fig. 2. Minced meat prepared so that most of the entrained air in the minced meat has been expelled using the method according to the invention as will be described below is placed in the interior region 19 of the mould 14 through the open mouth 20. The minced meat is placed in layers 75 as illustrated in Fig. 5 in the mould 14.Prior to placing the layers 75 into the mould 14, each layer 75 is formed into a circular shape of substantially similar area to the crosssectional area of the interior region 19 of the mould 14. The layers 75 are placed one on top of the other until the interior region 19 of the mould 14 is substantially full. The minced meat in the mould 14 is then tamped by the tamping plate 55 which pressures the minced meat to take up the shape of the interior region 19 of the mould 14 and also expels any remaining air entrained in the minced meat. Tamping is achieved by alternately engaging and disengaging a top surface 76 of the minced meat in the interior region 19 with tamping plate 55. The carrier framework 56 is pivoted downwardly and upwardly in the direction of the arrows A and B, respectively, by hand by gripping the cross member 59.On each downward stroke downward pressure is applied to the cross member 59.

The minced meat in the mould 14 is continuously tamped until minced meat appears through all the indicating openings 25. At this stage the minced meat in the mould 14 has taken up the entire shape of the mould 14.

By virtue of the fact that the bore forming member 23 extends upwardly of the open mouth 20 of the mould 14, the member 23 engages the opening 72 in the tamping plate 55 thereby acting as a guide for guiding the tamping plate 55 through the open mouth 20 into the interior region 19 of the mould 14.

On the tamping being completed the retaining brackets 45 are disengaged from the cross bar 28 of the mould 14 and the mould 14 with the minced meat contained therein is removed from the platform 33 and placed in a refrigerator for freezing. The mould 14 and minced meat are frozen to a temperature of approximately -220C. This takes approximately twelve hours when the refrigerator is set at -220C. On being frozen the minced meat block 2 is removed from the mould 14 by first removing the bore forming member 23, and then inverting the mould 14 so that the minced meat block 2 drops from the mould 14. The minced meat block 2 is now ready for use and is provided of substantially tapering cylindrical shape having the bore 9 extending therethrough for engaging the skewer (not shown) of a cooking device (not shown).The minced meat block 2 may be returned to the refrigerator for freezing until required, or may be defrosted and used. On being defrosted the minced meat block 2 is placed on the skewer of the cooking device (not shown) and on being cooked meat is sliced from the minced meat block 2 for use in the preparation of a kebab.

The method for preparing the minced meat prior to being placed in the mould 14 will now be described.

The meat is lamb meat and comprises lean lamb meat and fat. The lean meat and fat meat are minced separately and then mixed together. The lean meat constitutes approximately 80% by weight of the mixed lean and fat and the fat constitutes approximately 20% by weight of the mixed lean and fat meat. The minced lean meat and the minced fat are thoroughly mixed together and then subjected to a vacuum for extracting entrained air in the minced meat. The minced meat under vacuum is then vacuum packed. The packs are sealed under vacuuming thereby retaining the meat in the packs under vacuum.

In this way substantially all of the entrained air in the minced meat is expelled. Any remaining air which may be entrained in the minced meat or which may be induced when the layers 75 of minced meat are placed one on top of the other in the mould 14 is substantially totally expelled by tamping of the minced meat in the mould 14. When the minced meat is being removed from the vacuum pack it is carefully handled so as to minimize the amount of air being folded back into the meat. When the layers 75 of meat are being placed in the interior region 19 of the mould 14 care is required to minimize the amount of air which may be trapped between adjacent layers 75.

The layers 75 should be placed one on top of the other so that virtually no air is entrapped between the layers.

The advantages of the invention are many. A particularly important advantage of the invention is that by using the method and apparatus according to the invention a minced meat block with a relatively low fat content is provided and the minced meat block is particularly suitable for slicing. This is a particularly important advantage in that it provides better quality meat for use in the preparation of a kebab. Indeed, it is envisaged that by using the method and apparatus of the invention the fat content of the minced meat block can be reduced by up to 15% by weight of the meat over and above the minced meat blocks prepared by methods and apparatus known heretofore. Furthermore, the invention provides a method for preparing a minced meat block which is relatively efficient, and is considerably faster and less labour intensive than methods known heretofore.

Furthermore, the apparatus according to the invention enables the method to be carried out efficiently.

While the method has been described as comprising the step of subjecting the minced meat to a vacuum, and vacuum packing the minced meat, this, while it is preferable is not essential. Other suitable means of removing air entrained in the minced meat prior to being placed in the mould may be used. Indeed, in certain cases, it is envisaged that the minced meat may be placed in the mould without being pre-treated, however, in such cases, it is envisaged that the amount of tamping required would be considerably greater than if the minced meat had been treated to remove some or most of the entrained air.

Indeed, where the minced meat is subjected to a vacuum prior to being placed in the mould, it is not necessary that the minced meat should be vacuum packed.

In such cases, it is preferable that the minced meat should be placed in the mould immediately after being subjected to the vacuum. While a mould of a particular shape and construction has been described, any other suitable shape or construction of mould may be used. Needless to say, any other suitable tamping means may be provided and it is also envisaged that other means for applying pressure to the minced meat in the mould other than tamping may be used.

It is also envisaged that in certain cases the bore forming member may be dispensed with, and in which case, the spigot would form the bore in the minced meat block. Indeed, in certain cases1 it is envisaged that the meat block may be provided without a bore.

While a plurality of indicating openings have been described as being provided in the side wall of the mould, any number of indicating openings may be provided. Indeed, in certain cases, a single indicating opening may be provided. It is also envisaged that if desired indicating openings may be provided in the base of the mould.

While the tamping device has been described as being manually operated, it may be operated by other suitable means, for example, a pneumatic ram, an hydraulic ram, an electrically powered motor, or the like. Indeed, in certain cases, it is envisaged that vibrating means may be provided.

Claims

CLAIMS:

1. A method for forming minced meat into a block in a mould, the mould comprising a wall defining a hollow interior region which defines portion of the outer surface of the minced meat block, an open mouth being provided to the interior region, and at least one relatively small indicating opening extending through the wall from the interior region, the method comprising the steps of placing the minced meat in the hollow interior region through the open mouth, applying pressure to the minced meat in the mould, compressing the minced meat in the mould until minced meat appears through the indicating opening.

2. A method as claimed in Claim 1 in which a plurality of indicating openings are provided through the wall of the mould, and the pressure is applied to the minced meat until the minced meat appears through at least some of the indicating openings.

3. A method as claimed in Claim 1 or 2 in which the pressure is applied to the minced meat in the mould until the minced meat appears through each of the indicating openings.

4. A method as claimed in any preceding Claim in which the pressure is applied to the minced meat in the mould by tamping the minced meat.

5. A method as claimed in Claim 4 in which the minced meat is tamped through the open mouth of the mould.

6. A method as claimed in any preceding Claim in which air entrained in the minced meat is extracted prior to placing the minced meat in the mould.

7. A method as claimed in Claim 6 in which the minced meat is subjected to a vacuum for extracting the entrained air, prior to being placed in the mould.

8. A method as claimed in Claim 7 in which the minced meat is vacuum packed for extracting the entrained air prior to being placed in the mould, the minced meat being removed from the vacuum pack prior to being placed in the mould.

9. A method as claimed in any preceding Claim in which the minced meat is placed in transversely arranged layers in the mould.

10. A method as claimed in Claim 9 in which the layers of minced meat are shaped to substantially define the cross section of the interior region ot the mould prior to being placed therein.

11. A method as claimed in any preceding Claim in which a bore is formed in the minced meat block.

12. A method as claimed in Claim 11 in which the bore is formed while the minced meat is in the mould.

13. A method as claimed in any preceding Claim in which the minced meat block is a relatively elongated block of substantially circular transverse cross section.

14. A method as claimed in Claim 13 in which the elongated minced meat block tapers from one end to the other.

15. A method as claimed in Claim 14 in which the taper is relatively gradual.

16. A method as claimed in any of Claims 11 to 15 in which the bore through the minced meat block extends longitudinally therethrough and substantially coaxially of the minced meat block.

17. A method as claimed in any of Claims 11 to 16 in which the bore through the minced meat block is formed by a bore forming member extending through the hollow interior region of the mould, the bore forming member being releasably mounted in the mould.

18. A method as claimed in any preceding Claim in which the minced meat is prepared from lean meat and fat meat, the lean meat constituting in the range of 50% to 90% by weight of the minced meat.

19. A method as claimed in Claim 18 in which the lean meat constitutes approximately 80% by weight of the minced meat.

20. A method as claimed in any preceding Claim in which the hollow interior region of the mould defines a base and a side wall of the minced meat block.

21. A method as claimed in any preceding Claim in which the method includes the step of freezing the mould and the minced meat contained therein.

22. A method as claimed in Claim 21 in which the mould and minced meat therein are frozen to a temperature in the range of -150C to -300C.

23. A method as claimed in Claim 22 in which the mould and minced meat therein are frozen to a temperature of approximately -200C to -250C.

24. A method as claimed in any preceding Claim in which the method further comprises the step of removing the minced meat block from the interior region of the mould.

25. A method as claimed in Claim 24 in which the bore forming member is removed from the interior region of the mould prior to removing the minced meat block therefrom.

26. A method for forming minced meat into a block, the method being substantially as described herein with reference to and as illustrated in the accompanying drawings.

27. Apparatus for forming minced meat into a block suitable for mounting on a skewer, the apparatus comprising a mould having a wall defining a hollow interior region which defines portion of the outer surface of the minced meat block, an open mouth to the hollow interior region for placing the minced meat in the interior region, and at least one relatively small indicating opening being provided through the wall of the mould from the interior region for accommodating the passage of minced meat therethrough to indicate when the minced meat has substantially taken up the shape of the interior region.

28. Apparatus as claimed in Claim 27 in which a plurality of indicating openings are provided through the mould wall.

29. Apparatus claimed in Claim 27 or 28 in which the mould wall comprises a base and a side wall extending upwardly from the base, the base and side wall defining the hollow interior region of the mould.

30. Apparatus as claimed in Claim 29 in which the side wall extends circumferentially around the base.

31. Apparatus as claimed in Claim 29 or 30 in which the side wall defines the open mouth, and defines a tapered interior region converging from the open mouth towards the base.

32. Apparatus as claimed in any of Claims 27 to 31 in which each indicating opening is provided in the side wall.

33. Apparatus as claimed in any of Claims 27 to 31 in which each indicating opening is of circular cross section of diameter not exceeding 5 mm.

34. Apparatus as claimed in Claim 33 in which each indicating opening is of diameter not eceeding 3mm.

35. Apparatus as claimed in any of Claims 27 to 34 in which an elongated spigot is mounted on and extends from the base of the mould into the hollow interior region, the spigot being co-axial with the side wall and base.

36. Apparatus as claimed in Claim 35 in which a hollow elongated bore forming member is slidably engageable and co-axial with the spigot.

37. Apparatus as claimed in any of Claims 27 to 36 in which the apparatus further comprises a main framework supporting a platform for receiving the mould, and tamping means are mounted on the main framework for tamping the minced meat in the mould.

38. Apparatus as claimed in Claim 37 in which the tamping means comprises a tamping plate enterable through the open mouth of the mould for applying pressure to the minced meat in the mould, the tamping plate being mounted on a carrier framework moveable relative to the main framework.

39. Apparatus as claimed in Claim 38 in which the carrier framework is pivotally mounted on the main framework.

40. Apparatus as claimed in any of Claims 37 to 39 in which retaining means are provided for retaining the mould on the platform during tamping.

41. Apparatus for forming minced meat into a block suitable for mounting on a skewer, the apparatus being substantially as described herein with reference to and as illustrated in the accompanying drawings.

42. A minced meat block prepared according to the method of any of Claims 1 to 26.

43. A minced meat block prepared using the apparatus of any of Claims 27 to 41.

44. A kebab comprising meat sliced from the minced meat block as claimed in Claim 42 or 43.