EP1479458B1 - Method for manufacturing tubes and profiles - Google Patents

Method for manufacturing tubes and profiles Download PDF

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Publication number
EP1479458B1
EP1479458B1 EP04012217A EP04012217A EP1479458B1 EP 1479458 B1 EP1479458 B1 EP 1479458B1 EP 04012217 A EP04012217 A EP 04012217A EP 04012217 A EP04012217 A EP 04012217A EP 1479458 B1 EP1479458 B1 EP 1479458B1
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EP
European Patent Office
Prior art keywords
profile
pipe
strip material
strip
infinite
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Expired - Lifetime
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EP04012217A
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German (de)
French (fr)
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EP1479458A3 (en
EP1479458A2 (en
Inventor
Andreas Dr.-Ing. Hauger
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Muhr und Bender KG
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Muhr und Bender KG
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Classifications

    • B—PERFORMING OPERATIONS; TRANSPORTING
    • B21—MECHANICAL METAL-WORKING WITHOUT ESSENTIALLY REMOVING MATERIAL; PUNCHING METAL
    • B21C—MANUFACTURE OF METAL SHEETS, WIRE, RODS, TUBES OR PROFILES, OTHERWISE THAN BY ROLLING; AUXILIARY OPERATIONS USED IN CONNECTION WITH METAL-WORKING WITHOUT ESSENTIALLY REMOVING MATERIAL
    • B21C37/00—Manufacture of metal sheets, bars, wire, tubes or like semi-manufactured products, not otherwise provided for; Manufacture of tubes of special shape
    • B21C37/06—Manufacture of metal sheets, bars, wire, tubes or like semi-manufactured products, not otherwise provided for; Manufacture of tubes of special shape of tubes or metal hoses; Combined procedures for making tubes, e.g. for making multi-wall tubes
    • B21C37/15—Making tubes of special shape; Making tube fittings
    • B21C37/16—Making tubes with varying diameter in longitudinal direction
    • B—PERFORMING OPERATIONS; TRANSPORTING
    • B21—MECHANICAL METAL-WORKING WITHOUT ESSENTIALLY REMOVING MATERIAL; PUNCHING METAL
    • B21C—MANUFACTURE OF METAL SHEETS, WIRE, RODS, TUBES OR PROFILES, OTHERWISE THAN BY ROLLING; AUXILIARY OPERATIONS USED IN CONNECTION WITH METAL-WORKING WITHOUT ESSENTIALLY REMOVING MATERIAL
    • B21C37/00—Manufacture of metal sheets, bars, wire, tubes or like semi-manufactured products, not otherwise provided for; Manufacture of tubes of special shape
    • B21C37/06—Manufacture of metal sheets, bars, wire, tubes or like semi-manufactured products, not otherwise provided for; Manufacture of tubes of special shape of tubes or metal hoses; Combined procedures for making tubes, e.g. for making multi-wall tubes
    • B21C37/08—Making tubes with welded or soldered seams
    • Y—GENERAL TAGGING OF NEW TECHNOLOGICAL DEVELOPMENTS; GENERAL TAGGING OF CROSS-SECTIONAL TECHNOLOGIES SPANNING OVER SEVERAL SECTIONS OF THE IPC; TECHNICAL SUBJECTS COVERED BY FORMER USPC CROSS-REFERENCE ART COLLECTIONS [XRACs] AND DIGESTS
    • Y10—TECHNICAL SUBJECTS COVERED BY FORMER USPC
    • Y10T—TECHNICAL SUBJECTS COVERED BY FORMER US CLASSIFICATION
    • Y10T29/00—Metal working
    • Y10T29/49—Method of mechanical manufacture
    • Y10T29/49616—Structural member making
    • Y10T29/49622—Vehicular structural member making
    • Y—GENERAL TAGGING OF NEW TECHNOLOGICAL DEVELOPMENTS; GENERAL TAGGING OF CROSS-SECTIONAL TECHNOLOGIES SPANNING OVER SEVERAL SECTIONS OF THE IPC; TECHNICAL SUBJECTS COVERED BY FORMER USPC CROSS-REFERENCE ART COLLECTIONS [XRACs] AND DIGESTS
    • Y10—TECHNICAL SUBJECTS COVERED BY FORMER USPC
    • Y10T—TECHNICAL SUBJECTS COVERED BY FORMER US CLASSIFICATION
    • Y10T29/00—Metal working
    • Y10T29/49—Method of mechanical manufacture
    • Y10T29/49789—Obtaining plural product pieces from unitary workpiece
    • Y—GENERAL TAGGING OF NEW TECHNOLOGICAL DEVELOPMENTS; GENERAL TAGGING OF CROSS-SECTIONAL TECHNOLOGIES SPANNING OVER SEVERAL SECTIONS OF THE IPC; TECHNICAL SUBJECTS COVERED BY FORMER USPC CROSS-REFERENCE ART COLLECTIONS [XRACs] AND DIGESTS
    • Y10—TECHNICAL SUBJECTS COVERED BY FORMER USPC
    • Y10T—TECHNICAL SUBJECTS COVERED BY FORMER US CLASSIFICATION
    • Y10T29/00—Metal working
    • Y10T29/49—Method of mechanical manufacture
    • Y10T29/49826—Assembling or joining
    • Y10T29/49828—Progressively advancing of work assembly station or assembled portion of work
    • Y10T29/49829—Advancing work to successive stations [i.e., assembly line]
    • Y—GENERAL TAGGING OF NEW TECHNOLOGICAL DEVELOPMENTS; GENERAL TAGGING OF CROSS-SECTIONAL TECHNOLOGIES SPANNING OVER SEVERAL SECTIONS OF THE IPC; TECHNICAL SUBJECTS COVERED BY FORMER USPC CROSS-REFERENCE ART COLLECTIONS [XRACs] AND DIGESTS
    • Y10—TECHNICAL SUBJECTS COVERED BY FORMER USPC
    • Y10T—TECHNICAL SUBJECTS COVERED BY FORMER US CLASSIFICATION
    • Y10T29/00—Metal working
    • Y10T29/49—Method of mechanical manufacture
    • Y10T29/49826—Assembling or joining
    • Y10T29/49947—Assembling or joining by applying separate fastener
    • Y10T29/49966—Assembling or joining by applying separate fastener with supplemental joining
    • Y10T29/49968—Metal fusion joining
    • Y—GENERAL TAGGING OF NEW TECHNOLOGICAL DEVELOPMENTS; GENERAL TAGGING OF CROSS-SECTIONAL TECHNOLOGIES SPANNING OVER SEVERAL SECTIONS OF THE IPC; TECHNICAL SUBJECTS COVERED BY FORMER USPC CROSS-REFERENCE ART COLLECTIONS [XRACs] AND DIGESTS
    • Y10—TECHNICAL SUBJECTS COVERED BY FORMER USPC
    • Y10T—TECHNICAL SUBJECTS COVERED BY FORMER US CLASSIFICATION
    • Y10T29/00—Metal working
    • Y10T29/51—Plural diverse manufacturing apparatus including means for metal shaping or assembling
    • Y10T29/5185—Tube making

Definitions

  • the invention relates to a method for producing pipes and profiles with over the length of variable wall thickness with the steps flexible rolling of endless strip material with variable in the longitudinal direction of the strip material, continuously reduced compared to the initial thickness final thickness, Forming the strip material into an endless tube or profile, Cutting of individual pipe and profile pieces from the endless pipe or profile.
  • a method for producing tubes and hollow profiles with a longitudinally varying inner diameter For example, a method is known for producing tubes and hollow profiles with a longitudinally varying inner diameter.
  • predetermined portions of a metal strip are rolled, while the remaining portions maintain their un-rolled shape and thus the original material thickness.
  • the so differently rolled metal strip is profiled in a profile plant then to the pipe or hollow profile.
  • the periodic change from rolled to unwrought strip sections limits rolling speed and can lead to weak spots in the strip at the transitions.
  • no guidance of the metal strip is given.
  • no exact length measurement of the unalloyed band sections is possible.
  • Plants for round bending into a tube in the longitudinal direction of the strip material or for forming into a profile in the longitudinal direction of the strip material with a corresponding roller arrangement with forming rollers are known in the art.
  • Such systems comprise a multiplicity of shaping rollers arranged one behind the other in the direction of production and with a regularly changing roller shape and / or axial position.
  • the tubes and profiles may be slotted tubes or profiles open in cross section or tubes or profiles closed in cross section.
  • the inner diameter or cross-section can be kept constant, while the variable wall thickness is formed on the outer diameter or cross-section.
  • the individual tube or profile pieces are transformed after cutting to such an extent that they have variable cross-sections over the length.
  • Such pieces of pipe are used in particular in motor vehicle construction in many applications, in particular as a carrier with defined non-uniform deformation behavior (crash elements) or with defined non-uniform load behavior (bending beam).
  • first round tubes are shaped over the length so that at least one longitudinal section is non-circular, in particular laterally flattened in cross section.
  • FIG. 1 An embodiment of such a tube is shown in the drawings. These show in Figure 1 an inventive tube 11 in longitudinal section and in Figures 2 and 3 in cross section. First sections 12, 13, 14 of greater wall thickness and one-sided flattenings 18 and two sections 16, 17 of lesser wall thickness with an undeformed circular cross-section can be seen on the tube. Furthermore, a longitudinal seam 19 is marked, which is not directly affected by the subsequent forming of the tube.

Landscapes

  • Engineering & Computer Science (AREA)
  • Mechanical Engineering (AREA)
  • Metal Rolling (AREA)
  • Rigid Pipes And Flexible Pipes (AREA)
  • Heat Treatment Of Articles (AREA)

Abstract

The tube and stock producing process involves producing a tube (11) or stock with varying wall thickness along the length. Endless strip material is flexibly rolled with variably reduced final thickness in the longitudinal direction of the strip. The strip material is deformed into an endless tube or stock article. This is then cut into sections (12, 13, 14, 16).

Description

Die Erfindung betrifft ein Verfahren zum Herstellen von Rohren und Profilen mit über der Länge variabler Wandstärke mit den Schritten
flexibles Walzen von endlosem Bandmaterial mit in Längsrichtung des Bandmaterials variabler, durchgehend gegenüber der Ausgangsdicke reduzierter Enddicke,
Umformen des Bandmaterials zu einem endlosen Rohr oder Profil,
Ablängen einzelner Rohr- und Profilstücke vom endlosen Rohr oder Profil.The invention relates to a method for producing pipes and profiles with over the length of variable wall thickness with the steps
flexible rolling of endless strip material with variable in the longitudinal direction of the strip material, continuously reduced compared to the initial thickness final thickness,
Forming the strip material into an endless tube or profile,
Cutting of individual pipe and profile pieces from the endless pipe or profile.

Aus der DE 104 875 ist es bekannt, tafel- oder streifenförmige Blechstücke so auszuwalzen, daß parallele Streifen unterschiedlicher Wandstärke an dem Blechstück entstehen. Danach wird das Blechstück quer zu diesen Streifen rundgebogen und zu einem Rohr verlötet, wodurch das Rohr Längsabschnitte unterschiedlicher Wandstärke erhält.From the DE 104 875 It is known to auswalzen panel or strip-shaped pieces of sheet metal so that parallel strips of different wall thickness arise on the piece of sheet metal. Thereafter, the piece of sheet metal is bent around transversely to these strips and soldered to form a tube, whereby the tube receives longitudinal sections of different wall thickness.

Aus der EP 0 788 849 A1 ist ein gleichartiges Verfahren zur Herstellung von Rohren mit Abschnitten unterschiedlicher Wandstärke bekannt, bei dem aus einem anfangsebenen Blech durch gezielte partielle Wanddickenreduktion Bereiche unterschiedlicher Wanddicke mit zueinander parallelen Verlauf entstehen. Hierbei wird das gewalzte Blech zugeschnitten, zu einem Rohr umgeformt und entlang der Stoßkanten gefügt, insbesondere verschweißt.From the EP 0 788 849 A1 a similar method for the production of pipes with sections of different wall thickness is known in which arise from an initial plane sheet by targeted partial wall thickness reduction areas of different wall thickness with parallel course. Here, the rolled sheet is cut, formed into a tube and joined along the abutting edges, in particular welded.

Aus der DD 244 083 A1 ist ein Verfahren zur Herstellung von Rohren und Hohlprofilen mit in Längsrichtung sich änderndem Innendurchmesser bekannt. Hierbei werden vorbestimmte Abschnitte eines Metallbandes ausgewalzt, während die übrigen Abschnitte ihre ungewalzte Form und damit die ursprüngliche Materialstärke beibehalten. Das so unterschiedlich ausgewalzte Metallband wird in einer Profilanlage dann zum Rohr oder Hohlprofil profiliert.From the DD 244 083 A1 For example, a method is known for producing tubes and hollow profiles with a longitudinally varying inner diameter. In this case, predetermined portions of a metal strip are rolled, while the remaining portions maintain their un-rolled shape and thus the original material thickness. The so differently rolled metal strip is profiled in a profile plant then to the pipe or hollow profile.

Der periodische Wechsel von ausgewalzten zu ungewalzten Bandabschnitten beschränkt die Walzgeschwindigkeit und kann zu Schwachstellen im Band an den Übergängen führen. Beim Durchlauf der ungewalzten Bandabschnitte durch die Walzeinrichtung ist keine Führung des Metallbandes gegeben. Damit ist keine exakte Längenbemessung der ungewalzten Bandabschnitte möglich.The periodic change from rolled to unwrought strip sections limits rolling speed and can lead to weak spots in the strip at the transitions. During the passage of the non-rolled strip sections by the rolling device no guidance of the metal strip is given. Thus, no exact length measurement of the unalloyed band sections is possible.

Aus der EP 0 938 937 A1 ist ein Verfahren der eingangs genannten Art zur Herstellung von Karosserie- und Fahrzeugteilen bekannt, bei dem ein flachbandförmiges planes Halbwerkzeug aus einem Magazin einer ersten Bearbeitungsstation zugeführt wird, in der es mittels Walzen selektiv über seiner Breite und gegebenenfalls zusätzlich auch über seiner Länge umgeformt wird. In einer zweiten Bearbeitungsstation wird das zunächst noch plane Band mittels umformender Walzen nach und nach zu einem Rohrprofil oder einem offenen Profil umgeformt. Gegebenenfalls werden die ursprünglich seitlichen Kanten in einer dritten Bearbeitungsstation längsnahtverschweißt. Abschließend wird der kontinuierliche Rohr- oder Profilstrang in Rohr- oder Profilabschnitte vereinzelt. In allen Stationen herrscht eine einheitliche Durchlaufgeschwindigkeit vor.From the EP 0 938 937 A1 a method of the type mentioned for the production of bodywork and vehicle parts is known in which a flat band-shaped planar half-tool is fed from a magazine of a first processing station in which it is selectively formed by means of rollers over its width and optionally also over its length. In a second processing station, the strip, which is still flat at first, is gradually formed into a tubular profile or an open profile by means of deforming rollers. Optionally, the originally lateral edges are longitudinally welded in a third processing station. Finally, the continuous pipe or profile strand is separated into pipe or profile sections. In all stations a uniform speed of passage prevails.

Der vorliegenden Erfindung liegt die Aufgabe zugrunde, ein verbessertes Herstellungsverfahren mit erhöhter Produktivität für Rohre und Profile der genannten Art in verbesserter Qualität bereitzustellen. Die Lösung hierfür besteht in einem Verfahren der genannten Art mit den Schritten:

  • flexibles Walzen von endlosem Bandmaterial mit in Längsrichtung des Bandmaterials variabler, durchgehend gegenüber der Ausgangsdicke reduzierter Enddicke,
  • Umformen des Bandmaterials zu einem endlosen Rohr oder Profil,
  • Ablängen einzelner Rohr- oder Profilstücke vom endlosen Rohr oder Profil,
wobei das Bandmaterial nach dem mit hoher Geschwindigkeit erfolgenden flexiblen Walzen mit einer ersten Wickelgeschwindigkeit auf einen Coil aufgewickelt wird und zum Umformen des Bandmaterials zum endlosen Rohr oder Profil mit einer zweiten geringeren Wickelgeschwindigkeit, die auf das Umformen zum endlosen Rohr oder Profil optimiert ist, von diesem Coil abgewickelt, wird.The present invention has for its object to provide an improved production method with increased productivity for pipes and profiles of the type mentioned in improved quality. The solution to this consists in a method of the type mentioned with the steps:
  • flexible rolling of endless strip material with variable in the longitudinal direction of the strip material, continuously reduced compared to the initial thickness final thickness,
  • Forming the strip material into an endless tube or profile,
  • Cutting individual pipe or profile pieces from the endless pipe or profile,
wherein the strip material is wound on a coil after the high speed flexible rolls at a first winding speed and for converting the strip material to the endless tube or profile at a second lower winding speed optimized for forming the endless tube or profile therefrom Coil is wound up.

Anlagen zum Rundbiegen zu einem Rohr in Längsrichtung des Bandmaterials bzw. zum Umformen zu einem Profil in Längsrichtung des Bandmaterials mit entsprechender Walzenanordnung mit formgebenden Walzen sind in der Technik bekannt. Solche Anlagen umfassen eine Vielzahl von in Produktionsrichtung hintereinanderliegenden Formwalzen mit sich regelmäßig ändernder Walzenform und/oder Achslage.
Bei den Rohren und Profilen kann es sich um im Querschnitt offene Schlitzrohre oder Profile oder im Querschnitt geschlossene Rohre oder Profile handeln. In bevorzugter Verfahrensführung wird das endlose Rohr oder Profil zum geschlossen Rohr oder Profil längs - insbesondere in stumpfem Stoß - verschweißt. Hierbei kann der Innendurchmesser oder -querschnitt konstant gehalten werden, während sich die variable Wanddicke am Außendurchmesser oder -querschnitt abbildet.Plants for round bending into a tube in the longitudinal direction of the strip material or for forming into a profile in the longitudinal direction of the strip material with a corresponding roller arrangement with forming rollers are known in the art. Such systems comprise a multiplicity of shaping rollers arranged one behind the other in the direction of production and with a regularly changing roller shape and / or axial position.
The tubes and profiles may be slotted tubes or profiles open in cross section or tubes or profiles closed in cross section. In a preferred process, the endless tube or profile to the closed pipe or profile along - especially in blunt joint - welded. In this case, the inner diameter or cross-section can be kept constant, while the variable wall thickness is formed on the outer diameter or cross-section.

Nach einer weiterführenden günstigen Verfahrensgestaltung werden die einzelnen Rohr- oder Profilstücke nach dem Ablängen derart umgeformt, daß sie über der Länge variable Querschnitte aufweisen. Derartige Rohrstücke werden insbesondere im Kraftfahrzeugbau in vielen Verwendungszwecken eingesetzt, insbesondere als Träger mit definiertem ungleichförmigen Verformungsverhalten (Crashelemente) oder mit definiertem ungleichförmigen Belastungsverhalten (Biegeträger).After a further favorable process design, the individual tube or profile pieces are transformed after cutting to such an extent that they have variable cross-sections over the length. Such pieces of pipe are used in particular in motor vehicle construction in many applications, in particular as a carrier with defined non-uniform deformation behavior (crash elements) or with defined non-uniform load behavior (bending beam).

Nach einer besondere Verfahrensführung werden zunächst über der Länge gleichbleibend runde Rohre so umgeformt, daß zumindest ein Längsabschnitt unrund, insbesondere im Querschnitt seitlich abgeflacht ist.After a special procedure, first round tubes are shaped over the length so that at least one longitudinal section is non-circular, in particular laterally flattened in cross section.

Beim flexiblen Walzen werden stetige Übergänge zwischen den einzelnen Bandabschnitten bezüglich der Dicke hergestellt. Es findet insbesondere eine Reduzierung der Ausgangsdicke von durchgehend mindestens 5 % statt. Hierbei sollten sich aneinander anschließende Bandabschnitte in der Enddicke um mindestens 20 %, insbesondere mehr als 25 % unterscheiden. Die Übergänge zwischen einzelnen Bandabschnitten unterschiedlicher konstanter Bandenddicke sollen so gestreckt sein, daß ein Gradient aus Dickenänderung zu Bandlänge von höchstens 1:40 entsteht.In flexible rolling, continuous transitions between the individual strip sections are produced with respect to the thickness. In particular, there is a reduction in the initial thickness of at least 5% throughout. In this case, adjoining strip sections in the final thickness should differ by at least 20%, in particular more than 25%. The transitions between individual strip sections of different constant strip thickness should be stretched so that a gradient of thickness change to strip length of at most 1:40 is formed.

Ein Ausführungsbeispiel für ein solches Rohr ist in den Zeichnungen dargestellt. Diese zeigen in Figur 1 ein erfindungsgemäßes Rohr 11 im Längsschnitt und in Figuren 2 und 3 in Querschnitt. An dem Rohr sind erste Abschnitte 12, 13, 14 mit größerer Wandstärke und einseitigen Abflachungen 18 sowie zwei Abschnitte 16, 17 geringerer Wandstärke mit unverformtem kreisrunden Querschnitt erkennbar. Weiterhin ist eine Längsnaht 19 markiert, die vom nachträglichen Umformen des Rohres nicht unmittelbar betroffen ist.An embodiment of such a tube is shown in the drawings. These show in Figure 1 an inventive tube 11 in longitudinal section and in Figures 2 and 3 in cross section. First sections 12, 13, 14 of greater wall thickness and one-sided flattenings 18 and two sections 16, 17 of lesser wall thickness with an undeformed circular cross-section can be seen on the tube. Furthermore, a longitudinal seam 19 is marked, which is not directly affected by the subsequent forming of the tube.

Claims (9)

  1. A method of producing pipes (11) or profiles whose wall thickness varies along the length of same, comprising the following production stages:
    flexible rolling of an infinite strip material comprising an end thickness which is variable in the longitudinal direction of same and which is reduced continuously relative to the starting thickness;
    deforming the strip material into a infinite pipe (11) or profile;
    cutting individual pipe or profile pieces to length from the infinite pipe (11) or profile,
    characterised in
    that after the flexible rolling operation, the infinite strip material is wound onto a coil at a first winding speed and that, for deforming purposes, the infinite strip material is unwound from said coil at a second lower winding speed.
  2. A method according to claim 1,
    characterised in
    that, after the deforming operation prior to being cut to lengths to form a pipe or profile, the strip material is welded in the longitudinal direction.
  3. A method according to claim 1 or 2,
    characterised in
    that, after having been cut to lengths, the individual pipe or profile pieces are deformed into longitudinally variable cross-sections.
  4. A method according to claim 3,
    characterised in
    that the deformation process takes place in the form of hydraulic internal pressure deformation.
  5. A method according to any one of claims 3 or 4,
    characterised in
    that, initially, a longitudinally uniformly round piece of pipe is deformed in such a way that at least one longitudinal portion is out-of-round, more particularly flattened on one side.
  6. A method according to any one of claims 3 or 4,
    characterised in
    that a piece of profile whose cross-section is initially uniform along its length is deformed in such a way that the cross-section of at least one longitudinal portion deviates therefrom.
  7. A method according to any one of claims 1 to 6,
    characterised in
    that, during the flexible rolling operation, the starting thickness is reduced continuously by at least 5 %.
  8. A method according to any one of claims 1 to 7,
    characterised in
    that the end thicknesses of strip portions adjoining one another differ from one another by at least 20 %, more particularly by more than 25 %.
  9. A method according to any one of claims 1 to 8,
    characterised in
    that, in the region of the transitions between the individual strip portions, there occurs a gradient of change in thickness to strip length of a maximum of 1:40.
EP04012217A 2003-05-22 2004-05-24 Method for manufacturing tubes and profiles Expired - Lifetime EP1479458B1 (en)

Applications Claiming Priority (2)

Application Number Priority Date Filing Date Title
DE10323694 2003-05-22
DE10323694A DE10323694A1 (en) 2003-05-22 2003-05-22 Method for producing pipes and profiles

Publications (3)

Publication Number Publication Date
EP1479458A2 EP1479458A2 (en) 2004-11-24
EP1479458A3 EP1479458A3 (en) 2004-12-01
EP1479458B1 true EP1479458B1 (en) 2007-08-08

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EP04012217A Expired - Lifetime EP1479458B1 (en) 2003-05-22 2004-05-24 Method for manufacturing tubes and profiles

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US (1) US7107682B2 (en)
EP (1) EP1479458B1 (en)
JP (1) JP4173118B2 (en)
AT (1) ATE369216T1 (en)
DE (2) DE10323694A1 (en)
ES (1) ES2291772T3 (en)

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ATE369216T1 (en) 2007-08-15
EP1479458A3 (en) 2004-12-01
US7107682B2 (en) 2006-09-19
EP1479458A2 (en) 2004-11-24
JP2004344979A (en) 2004-12-09
US20050015959A1 (en) 2005-01-27
ES2291772T3 (en) 2008-03-01
DE10323694A1 (en) 2005-01-27
DE502004004551D1 (en) 2007-09-20
JP4173118B2 (en) 2008-10-29

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